When to Let Go of Ego to Deliver Better Client Results

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What Does a Tax Attorney Actually Do for Business Owners?

Robin Pasley: It helps. I would prefer to be on a team where we're driving in our lanes but feeding one another the information that makes the whole thing work better.

Vince Viruni: I think it touches on what we talked about earlier about music. You're so good that you can incorporate someone else's playing style into the tune you're playing.

Randi Lynn Johnson: Well, everybody, welcome back to Design to Help Your Business Grow. I am your host, Randi Lynn Johnson, here as always with our fabulous owner and design principal, Robin Pasley. Hello. And today we have a very exciting guest, Vince Viruni. Vince, a reminder about the point of this podcast: it is to help business owners grow their business, and so we have the design and branding piece covered from this firm. But we always like to interview other professionals in the city and see what you have to offer business owners. You are an attorney, specifically a tax attorney, with Harbor Point Associates. Is that right? Okay, what is the problem? How do you help business owners? What do you solve for them?

Vince Viruni: There's no one answer I can provide there. It really depends on what the client's immediate problem is and what the ultimate goal is. My multidisciplinary background — if I can use a $6 word — is in tax matters and how to mitigate the tax impact, whether that's prospectively for a business owner looking to grow, in any succession planning, or retroactively if they have tax problems and they want to get out of that mess.

Vince Viruni: So that they could continue growing. I also assist in situations where it's a close call between criminal and civil investigations, trying to keep people toward the civil side and away from criminal investigations with federal and state tax agencies. It really depends where the client wants me.

Randi Lynn Johnson: Sure.

Vince Viruni: I usually ask for just an extra seat at the table. If there is something I can see or value I can provide, I'll comment — and if not, I can connect them with someone who will be able to meet the business owner's needs.

Robin Pasley: That's great. I know you've been in this business for quite some time, but you just transitioned into the Springs.

Vince Viruni: We moved from Maryland, and I was back and forth for a while. With being on both coasts and in transient cities, you get to see a lot of different types of problems. One of the things I'm looking out for here is: what does the local market need? I wanted to assess those needs and position myself to be valuable to the local community.

Randi Lynn Johnson: What is one of the things you see come up most often across the board here?

Vince Viruni: So far, when dealing with federal tax issues, it's basically similar questions: I'm running a business — what can I do to mitigate the tax impact? Am I structured properly as a business? That seems to come up everywhere. There are varying levels of advice people get depending on who they work with, and navigating those conversations with a client's existing advisor is sometimes the challenge I look forward to most — because you want to keep the client's team intact while trying to be the new person on the team.

Vince Viruni: And, well, we've done it this way.

How Does Ego-Free Collaboration Produce Better Business and Design Outcomes?

Robin Pasley: I find that to be something we share. When we come to the table with a client and all the advisors they already have, it's about finding our seat and knowing how to best help the client. We have to play well in the sandbox with the other team — without unseating anyone — while still being able to assess what's going on and bring the right perspective, which is sometimes contradictory to what they've been receiving. That's part of what you do too: bringing that fine-tuned perspective for the tax situation.

Robin Pasley: And it changes — you're absolutely right — case by case. Sometimes clients are sitting on resources that aren't immediately apparent to them, and part of the work is guiding them to ask those questions of their existing advisors. When the client tells you about their existing relationships, you'll know when it's safe for them to reach out directly.

Robin Pasley: I love the collaborative mindset you have, because too often the modality is to silo up — protect what you know, stay in your lane. But I would prefer to work in the way you're describing: assess what's happening, recognize who knows more on a given piece, and call each other in when needed. It's ultimately the best thing for the client. I would prefer to be on a team where we're driving in our lanes but feeding one another the information that makes the whole thing work better.

Vince Viruni: It touches on what we talked about earlier regarding music. If you're good enough to incorporate someone else's playing style into what you're playing — and this goes back to the jazz versus classical mindset — there are performers who can play with anybody and make phenomenal music live and impromptu.

Vince Viruni: One of the things I strive for is to be so good at what I do that part of my personal challenge is to work with whoever the client is already working with — and to be very open, even with the client, that this is a tentative thought process, subject to review, and we're going to have discussions with their other team members. If there's a better way, we're going to find it.

What Does Music Teach Business Owners About Working With a Professional Team?

Randi Lynn Johnson: You said you are a classically trained musician. What did you play?

Vince Viruni: I was raised on the piano. Then I shifted attention and explored violin and then guitar, and then transitioned into other instruments as well — percussion, really.

Randi Lynn Johnson: Leave some for the rest of us.

Vince Viruni: Good grief. I don't play as often as I'd like to nowadays, but it's something that shaped who I am.

Randi Lynn Johnson: That's really cool — that you've taken that experience and applied it to your work. That's a unique and special skill set. I know Robin has it too, and it's fun to see when it plays out.

Vince Viruni: Robin, do you find outside artistic talents getting incorporated into your business dynamics with clients or your team?

Robin Pasley: A hundred percent. In my previous career in music, collaboration was everything. We started as a duo writing and playing our own music, and then we folded the next large chapter of our career into collaboration efforts. All the albums we produced after that were collaborations. What I learned in that process was having to give up your ego in order to make the better song. I think that's the same principle in creating projects with our clients — you give up the ego of "I want to do this one thing" so that you can ask: what do you need? What is going to make this project speak about you and not about me? I'm able to bring a more mature artist's viewpoint to commercial interior design — one that brings creativity but submits it to the professional future of the business I'm working with.

Vince Viruni: Because ultimately, the happy client is going to be the ultimate success story for you as an advisor in your space.

Robin Pasley: Absolutely. And it's why I get out of bed in the morning — helping them. At the end of our projects, we create books that we share with clients showing the before and after of what we built together. That stack of books — some days when I'm having a hard time, I just sit down and look at it, because that's a stack of people I got to help. It's why we do what we do.

What Should Colorado Springs Business Owners Know About Tax Changes Coming Their Way?

Randi Lynn Johnson: Who do you love to work with? How would you describe your ideal client?

Vince Viruni: Most of the time, it ends up being large transactions dealing with a complex area of substantive law with unique personalities — oftentimes in conflict with one another. That's my ideal. I have a transactional and litigation hybrid practice. Where I find myself thriving most is where transaction and litigation typically meet.

Randi Lynn Johnson: You're not afraid of a challenge — you seem to like a challenge. You're a good problem solver.

Vince Viruni: That's basically it. Getting up in the morning knowing I've solved a challenge for a client and that they're better off today than they were before they met me — that's what gives me value.

Randi Lynn Johnson: Is there anything federally or at the state level coming down the pipeline that business owners should be aware of — anything tax-related they need to have in place?

Vince Viruni: Absolutely. The one thing I can say is that all business owners should keep their ears to the ground right now, because there are so many changes coming that we don't necessarily know yet. There are lots of options being presented at the congressional level, tax-wise, that will be subject to change as the one big bill makes its way through the different chambers. I would say for all business owners to get their advisors — their CPAs, financial advisors, bankers, whoever they work with — and really stay close to what's happening, because everything is subject to change.

Randi Lynn Johnson: We already have your contact information, but if our listeners are looking for help — a master problem solver — how can they find you?

Vince Viruni: They can call our main line, which is operating 24/7: 866-405-1615. And they can find all contact information at harborpointassociates.com.

Randi Lynn Johnson: Well, Vince, thank you so much for your time and your expertise. If I needed a lawyer, I would call you — you have such a calming, level head. We need more people like you. Thanks so much, and we'll see you around the city.

Vince Viruni: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Randi Lynn Johnson: In an increasingly competitive market, the merits of using interior design as a strategic growth tool can make all the difference in not just surviving but thriving.

Robin Pasley: Pasley Commercial Interiors — design to help your business grow.

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